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It is close enough that it will work with the flat top chain. Honestly I would save for the new 13 speed XPLR cassette or wait till they release the force and rival levels

No need to go wide with the road set up. The wide is just for gravel bikes to clear larger tires. Has no bearing on if it will work with Shimano or not.

Congrats on first comment! Good feedback! Did you have the same delay in shifts? Honestly I think pairing this cassette with the new Wheeltop eds gx that can go up to 14 speed would be nice. Takes some tinkering but I'm sure it would be a nice set up.

@@BlackWaterCyclist I used to have that delay but nowadays it seems to shift faster… or I’ve gotten used to it haha. And Ratio did confirm to me they’ve had the same issue in the 12t to 11t cog jump both on 9-42 and 10-44, so it seems there is some design flaw with the tooth profiles.

@@RicardoRocha-lg1xo That is very interesting. I have found using a SRAM flat top chain has made the shifting quicker. Only downside is obviously wearing the cassette out to the larger rollers of the SRAM flat top chain. I also found when putting down 1000 plus watts on mud or dirt, it would skip.

@@BlackWaterCyclist wear aside… does the flat top chain actually fits those gears? Maybe I should give that a try, even if it’s not supposed to work hahaha. Truth be told I’ve been tempted to go back to 1x11, for reliability’s sake… or otherwise switch to Ratio’s SRAM 1x12 offering, which I have on my road bike and has been flawless. I wouldn’t have to worry about the 1000 watts scenario, though. I only hit that number once, years ago, when I was younger, fitter (though still not THAT fit) and less injured…

@@RicardoRocha-lg1xo Yeah I did it with my 14 speed set up I did with the Archer system. Here is a video on it and I discuss using the flat top with it. ruclips.net/video/r2s1sqxffwg/видео.html

I think they go hand in hand. If your chain is bouncing off the cassette and not engaged in a gear, then you can't mash massive power out while shifting. I have never had a chain bounce off the cassette or skip teeth unless I was trying to shift in the middle of mashing. I will have to train my brain that I can mash while shifting now. 20 years of letting off to shift will be hard to let go.

Downhill you can, especially if you are a masher like me. :)

Yeah they are much more in line with Ekar. Not quite as close as Ekar in the small cogs but better than the previous XPLR.

I have no idea why anyone would want more gears for MTB. The only time my MTB gets shifted in the top cogs is in the work stand.

Honestly this is more like a mtb groupset for roadies. I agree, depending on your terrain, MTBs have not suffered from the large jumps between cogs bc the speeds are so drastically different. As far as chain wear, surprisingly the newer chains are getting better and better with wear according to Zero friction cycling tests. That isnt to say these arent going to be bashed up good though, requiring maintenance.

You could actually use trp hylex brakes and install some blips somewhere on it. I actually did that to one of my ti bikes. It's on my Instagram.

That would be epic if they did that but I don't see them doing it. Would love to have a cheaper 12 speed cassette for training rides.

To adjust for the oversized pulley wheels, you just increase the B screw gap. You can get a fixed upper pulley to clear larger cogs but like I mentioned in the video, the shifting in the smaller cogs will suffer and if you adjust it to shift good in the small cogs then the upper pulley will hit the larger cogs. Just like you said it helps the chain wrap (and shifting) in the smaller cogs. Now a parallelogram derailleur can be designed to clear larger cogs with a fixed upper pulley but it will still suffer bad shifting somewhere on the cassette.

@BlackWaterCyclist for sure, but then you get bad chain wrap on the smaller cogs. Without offsetting it, some pulleys won't even clear big cogs on a cassette so that's another necessary reason to move the pulleys axis.

@@BlackWaterCyclist the very big pulleys some people use on their bikes would never clear a 36t cog without the aftermarket cage.

WOAH!!! That's big news. I was wondering how they would do with all the new stuff coming out of China. Thanks for the heads up!

The new ekar 10-48 cassette goes 10,11,12,13,14, then 16 so it has more close gears. Your XPLR goes 10,11,13,15. It really depends on your terrain and pedaling style. The higher the speeds for flatter terrain, the closer you want the gears If it is hilly, the close gears can get annoying because you have to shift twice to get to the preferred cadence. If I run a cassette that has super close gears on MTB trails, it gets very annoying because it doesn't feel like there is enough change between gears. For my terrain when on super fast group road rides, we are cruising around 24-28 mph on the flats so the closer gears help tremendously.

Except it’ll be 1x13

@@thedownunderverse That would be ideal if Shimano did that. They need to do something because Sram is coming out with more and more refinements. Yes Sram has more issues usually but they are getting better and better. Also Shimano business model with bike shops is horrible so it is harder to deal with them on the business front while sram is much easier to work with.

Exactly! I wonder if we will see this on any of the Pro Teams bikes for certain stages. Get rid of that horrible Sram front mech.

​@@BlackWaterCyclisthope 13 speed works with 12 speed shifters. Is UDH absolutely necessary?

​@@Lenser Yeah the rear derailleur with the AXS system determines the number of gears and the spacing, not the shifters. That is why when you pair the MTB AXS rear derailleur with the road shifters, you are supposed to use the MTB cassettes and chain. So this rear derailleur should pair with all previous shifters and blips. So if you already have previous AXS shifters then you can probably just get the derailleur and cassette and be good. Yes your frame will have to have the UDH style hanger unless they are offering one without the UDH, which I would find hard to believe if they offered that.

​@@BlackWaterCyclistsadly with older frames without UDH it will not be possible to go Sram 13 speed.

@@Lenser Exactly, That is a major bummer in my opinion. I think UDH is moving in the right direction but sucks when new stuff wont work with older frames.

It probably won't be much highe4 than 12sp and Force and Rival will come soon since there's 12sp Apex now

How are you running XT 12 speed with drop bars?

@@thedownunderverse Probably Di2.

@@BlackWaterCyclist there is no 12 sp mtb di2. Its ebike only

Its innacurate though.

Yes I have actually done the same but the shifting performance in the smaller cogs is less than ideal because the upper pulley is further away from them resulting is slow clucky shifts.

You really just need a different cage

It never will be unless a derailleur is made to only work with one hanger geometry and a specific cassette range. This was a thing 15yrs ago using an 11-21 cassette and an 11-28 with the same rear derailleur.

Yup, and plenty are available

@veganpotterthevegan is absolutely correct. Ratio Tech, Hope, Garbaruk, and OneUp are a few I can think of that have extender cages.

When did you order it?

Sram will not allow the XPLR AXS rear derailleur to pair with an AXS front derailleur.

Yes that is a good point I should have made during the video. I have found even with the parallelogram, they still struggle to clear the larger cogs without an offset pulley when you install a large range cassette.

Thanks @Kactusdog !! This past year was a rough one. My wife and I decided to to go for baby #4 and shoot for the boy. We got HIM! But he also kicked our butts! Coming out of the fog of a year of no sleep. Then started a bike brand during that same time so finally getting some time to focus on the channel. Hope to have videos out much more regularly now.

@@BlackWaterCyclist Awesome stuff. Love to hear it. We are expecting our 2nd girl this Nov. I'll all in on the dropbar HT gravel bike experiment these days, it's been very educational. We'll have to chat some time!

Yes the Cdale spindles work with the SRAM BB30 arms.